Dirty:
4th place and sinking like a rock …
The Giants may as well be playing on the road because they have not been able to get the crowd into a game since the middle of the first game against the Red Sox. They play one this afternoon and then go on one of their longest road trips of the year. That will include 4 in Colorado, 4 in Milwaukee (who have played better of late) and 3 in Washington – where Cain’s recent scuffle will couple with his bad luck as he’ll face off against some kid named Strasburg. Did I mention no days off?
They’ve dropped 8 of 11.
I think it’s fair to ask, should they really be looking to add now while they seem to be falling apart? Word is the Giants are looking to add a bat and won’t take a free agent to be. People seem to agree – including me – that an outfielder suits them best. I’ve been saying a while that DeJesus seems like a good fit in my opinion. I’ll add another target to that list. Josh Willingham. He’s not a rental and he’s putting up outstanding numbers. He’s got tons of pop and has been put up a .400 OBP all season long. Not a great outfielder but he won’t embarrass himself. Otherwise, they can grab that first baseman Milwaukee has during their series there, ala Freddy Sanchez last year in Pittsburg. That’d be a pretty hefty price tag, though.
BJ Upton might be available … seems like a needs a change of scenery type guy that would at the very very least add some athleticism both in the lineup and defensively.
What do YA’LL think?
Bob:
I've been really busy and haven't seen all the games. My thoughts are simple from viewing the box score, double plays are out of control, starting pitching has been far less dominant and the pen has always been mediocre. I think the staff is in a slump, that will return to normal. The dp situation needs fixing ASAP and getting that extra bat will help. Still a lot of playing left, im not counting them out yet
Insightful baseball analysis for the casual crowd, Moneyball masses and you, the Third and King crew
Wednesday, June 30, 2010
Thursday, June 24, 2010
Lost in The Loss
Dirty:
Perhaps lost in last nights loss was the fact that Joe Martinez pitched … somewhat unnecessarily too I might add. The Giants were losing by three runs and he was supposed to be in the pen for “long relief.” The Giants had a day off on Monday and Wilson was the only pitcher that had thrown and inning on Tuesday, so the Giants theoretically could have run another pitcher out there. As it was, Martinez went out there and got into all kinds of trouble before getting out of a bases loaded, one out jam. Why is this important? Joe Martinez was the penciled in starter for Saturday’s game against Boston. Also, Madison Bumgarner’s next scheduled start would be… that’s right, Saturday. Was Bochy creating an excuse to bring up Madison Bumgarner? I think he might have been. Martinez threw 22 pitches and could probably still start Saturday, but Boston will probably clobber him. I’m ready for Bumgarner. Here are his numbers excluding his two horrendous starts to start the season.
People are starting to talk about it and it is pretty clear that Bengie Molina’s days are numbered. Listen to this stat, I read he has scored 1 RUN in his past 28 games which included 26 starts. Take a second to let that soak in. HE HAS SCORED 1 RUN IN HIS PAST 28 GAMES???? Yes, wow. You can’t hit him 5th or 6th or 7th because his slugging percentage is 100 points lower than 2009. Oh, and when you hit him 8th and by some stroke of luck he actually managers to REACH BASE – which is rare – you can’t bunt the pitcher because it’s basically a double play or near it.
So it seems to me that we are ever so slowly c r a w l i n g to the Giants actually fielding the best team that they can.
Torres CF
Sanchez 2B
Huff 1B
Uribe SS
Burrell LF
Sandoval 3B
Posey C
Schierholtz RF
PITCHER
And what if you add that OF bat/glove it seems they need?
Torres CF
Sanchez 2B
DeJesus RF
Huff 1B
Uribe SS
Burrell LF
Sandoval 3B
Posey C
PITCHER
That’s a pretty decent looking everyday lineup, certainly better than Opening Day…
Rowand CF
Renteria SS
Sandoval 3B
Huff 1B
DeRosa LF
Molina C
Bowker RF
Uribe 2B
PITCHER
Dirty:
So much for Cain’s string of dominance, he got HAMMERED today by the worst hitting team in the major leagues.
Perhaps lost in last nights loss was the fact that Joe Martinez pitched … somewhat unnecessarily too I might add. The Giants were losing by three runs and he was supposed to be in the pen for “long relief.” The Giants had a day off on Monday and Wilson was the only pitcher that had thrown and inning on Tuesday, so the Giants theoretically could have run another pitcher out there. As it was, Martinez went out there and got into all kinds of trouble before getting out of a bases loaded, one out jam. Why is this important? Joe Martinez was the penciled in starter for Saturday’s game against Boston. Also, Madison Bumgarner’s next scheduled start would be… that’s right, Saturday. Was Bochy creating an excuse to bring up Madison Bumgarner? I think he might have been. Martinez threw 22 pitches and could probably still start Saturday, but Boston will probably clobber him. I’m ready for Bumgarner. Here are his numbers excluding his two horrendous starts to start the season.
So it seems to me that we are ever so slowly c r a w l i n g to the Giants actually fielding the best team that they can.
Torres CF
Sanchez 2B
Huff 1B
Uribe SS
Burrell LF
Sandoval 3B
Posey C
Schierholtz RF
PITCHER
And what if you add that OF bat/glove it seems they need?
Torres CF
Sanchez 2B
DeJesus RF
Huff 1B
Uribe SS
Burrell LF
Sandoval 3B
Posey C
PITCHER
That’s a pretty decent looking everyday lineup, certainly better than Opening Day…
Rowand CF
Renteria SS
Sandoval 3B
Huff 1B
DeRosa LF
Molina C
Bowker RF
Uribe 2B
PITCHER
Dirty:
So much for Cain’s string of dominance, he got HAMMERED today by the worst hitting team in the major leagues.
Wednesday, June 9, 2010
Finally, (actually) one bat away
Dirty:
Andres Torres is starting to get some attention from the sabermetric community. I noticed recently that FanGraphs posted a story on him saying that he should be the starting CF in the All-Star game if you go by WAR along – i.e. the stat which tries to combine offense and defense into player value. According to FanGraphs, Torres has already racked up 2.1 wins above replacement in 2010 which is the equivalent of around $9 mil per “win” in the current market. Rob Neyer wrote about it too, just today.
Torres’ story is pretty interesting. I think we’re all aware he was a track star turned baseball player, and that he really couldn’t hit his first 6 or so seasons in professional baseball. But then, he suddenly learned how to work a count and drive the baseball. He uses the largest bat on the Giants. That’s remarkable because Sandoval uses a large bat and he weighs at least 50 more lbs than Torres. When you couple Torres’ game changing speed and ability to flat out track everything down in the outfield you find that he’s a pretty solid player.
It turns out that he learned to hit in 2007 and started putting up good minor league numbers. Then in 2008, in the Cubs minor league system, he put up some outstanding offensive numbers. I agree with Neyer, it seems the baseball community determined his numbers were the product of him graduating to a 4-A player. A 4-A player is a guy that’s had plenty of opportunity to play at the major league level and has never succeeded. So the team sends him back down he tears up AAA. Then the team brings him back up and he can’t hit his way out of a wet paper bag. This is the definition of a 4-A player. They’ve played in the upper minors long enough to figure out the slightly less polished and weaker competition but cannot seem to figure out the select few players that are consistent enough to stick in the bigs. If you want exhibit A check out Brandon Wood. Brandon Wood was a super prospect for the Angels that demolished the minor leagues. His efforts on the big club have been futile. In fact, he lost his job to Kevin Frandsen. I’d probably say the Giants’ John Bowker and Nate Schierholtz certainly look like players that might fall into this category.
So what does this all mean? It means something significant to me. Bochy had a quote last night saying that he puts Torres in an elite group of the very best outfielders in the game. I completely agree. Torres doesn’t coast, ever. Torres blazes to where the ball is, wherever it is, and simply catches it. He makes it look easy. It’s ridiculous. He’s such a graceful athlete. He also has learned to utilize his speed and start stealing bags. And, perhaps most importantly, he’s able to work the count and take some walks which is evidenced by his OBP approaching .400. And if you make a mistake, he can hit the ball a long way.
I don’t see how Torres can’t have passed Rowand on the depth chart in CF. This is the time to make the move and prove to the fans that the Giants will play the best available player, regardless of their paycheck. Torres should be penciled in at CF and batting 1st until further notice. Rowand should have to work his way back into the lineup at the corner outfield spots.
And with that, I believe the Giants are probably one impact bat away from taking the west somewhat convincingly. I don’t think Burrel is the answer, obviously, but think he could provide a good power right handed bat off the bench. I think if the Giants could scoop up a solid left fielder who can hit, they’d be set. The best thing they could possibly do is to place Posey behind the plate, Huff back at first, add a LF bat, make Torres the CF, leave Uribe at SS and keep Renteria as a backup when he returns, Sanchez obviously sticks at 2B, the Panda at 3B and Schierholtz and Rowand can scrap for time in RF. What this effectively does is gives you a pretty strong defensive lineup as well as a lineup that is league average. More importantly, it gives the Giants 4 out of 4 strong up the middle players. Posey can be a stolen base preventing backstop with outstanding offensive ability for a catcher. Freddy Sanchez is a solid overall player who can really handle the bat. Uribe isn’t the greatest shortstop on the planet but he’s at least a league average hitter with more power than the shortstop position usually has. Finally, Torres is hitting league average in centerfield with power and tremendous ability in the outfield.
That’s the team I want to see. That’s a team I believe has a shot not only to make the playoffs, but to make some noise in October.
1. Torres (CF)
2. Sanchez (2B)
3. David DeJesus (LF): http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dejesda01.shtml
4. Huff (1B)
5. Uribe (SS)
6. Sandoval (3B)
7. Posey (C)
8. Rowand/ Schierholtz platoon (RF)
9. Pitcher
I like the idea of having DeJesus come over from Kansas City. He’s the best left fielder in the game outside of Carl Crawford and can swing the stick. With the AL being a more difficult league, I could envision him flourishing in the NL, especially going from a losing franchise that must sap motivation. I also don’t know if Pablo Sandoval can be relied on the bat 3rd for the rest of 2010. Something is wrong. He’s not the same hitter he was at the end of 2008 and all of 2009. He’s a double play machine that looks out of shape and has no idea what he’s doing at the plate. I do think he can return to form, I just don’t know if he can in 2010.
Bob:
The only thing I can say is that I agree but doubt that the Giants will do as you wish. They love to play the player getting paid the most regardless of how obvious it is that a better option is available. Molina will continue to catch and be a mediocre hitter, which erodes everything because you have to move Huff to first to get the impact hitter at LF. Removing/limiting Rowand is actually I think a possibility because he flat out sucks and that is not point up for debate.
What about this lineup (I like yours better)
1. Torres CF
2. Sanch 2B
3. DeJes LF
4. Huff RF
5. Uribe SS
6. Padna 3B
7. Posey 1B
8. Molina C
Rowand on the bench unless an outfielder NEEDS a day off.
Dirty:
I think you’re right about Molina. I don’t think he starts at catcher unless he continues to struggle mightily. But, I do think there’s a chance he continues to struggle mightily and Bochy reassesses. That wouldn’t be the end of the world, especially if they grab a DeJesus type player. DeJesus has played above average defense in RF for the Royals all season and could move there to open up LF for Huff. Huff should be in LF before RF, especially with AT&T’s dimensions. I also hate the idea of Bengie hitting behind Posey. They’ll pitch around Posey pretty often (like they did last night but Bengie burned them) and Molina will hit into double plays. Posey should be on often, and neither player has blazing speed. I think that’d be a dangerous combo for double plays hitting them 7 and 8. It’s tough to stomach Bengie in the lineup right now. Both his and Rowands OPS’ are darting towards low .600 to sub .600. That’s not bad, that’s HORRIBLE.
Another thing worth noting is this. Bochy and Sabean have been praising Posey in the media. Sabean said yesterday that Posey will not be sent down. He also was quoted as saying something along the lines of, ‘I just cannot believe how relaxed this kid is.’ I couldn’t agree more. He acts like he’s been in the big leagues for 12 seasons. As soon as Posey gets a few catching starts mixed in and wins over the pitchers, Bochy can make the move. He threw Joey Votto out by a mile in the only game he caught this season. I didn’t see him have to block balls but I’d be interested to see that. He’s pretty quiet behind the plate and shows a big target – his glove looks like a “big ol’ plate” – as Krukow would say. He’ll get better with each start.
Dirty:
In case you weren’t aware, the Dodgers are in first place by themselves.
Bob:
Ya, totally right about pitching around Posey to see Molina, great point. BTW, I read Cain was saying that he's been on his game BECAUSE of Molina.
I wish I could watch more games to see what I think of this Panda in danger situation. What is he doing that is not working? I remember that when I played a lot of my success (if I ever had any) was because I swung a lot and could put almost anything in play, like Pablo with out any power. Hits fall and your average is high, but then the pitching gets better (or maybe in Panda's case, figures you out a bit) and it is way less effective. Then you try to be selective and end up watching good pitches go by. It's a rough cycle plus luck has a bit to do with it because the balls have to get down for you sometimes as well.
I haven't seen him play very much, but this is something I have thought about as he's been slumping.
Dirty:
He’s swinging at everything like he always has; however, he’s rarely driving the ball. It pretty much has to be one of two things. 1) The pitchers adjusted and don’t give him anything to hit. They almost never give in and pretty much throw him sloppy pitches, specifically low ones he can’t keep hitting off the ground. 2) His bat speed has been dramatically reduced and thus he simply cannot get to those balls he once was driving. Reduced bat speed can be caused by a bunch of stuff. One could be that he’s more tentative because of his slump and less reactive. I don’t think this is it though. The other is that he’s out of shape and more tired. I personally think it’s a combination of 1 and 2. The pitchers aren’t giving him pitches to drive ever. What’s worse, his bat speed is down. I’m almost certain of this because he’s not driving fastballs at the belt, especially while hitting right handed. Arthur Rhodes came in last night and blew him away on 4 straight fastballs (he managed to take one). He couldn’t even foul one off. Rhodes only throws about 91-92 MPH and they weren’t dramatically up in the zone. If you get a chance to see him hit, watch what they throw. It’s junk down in the zone and fastballs up in the zone. He’s not doing anything with either.
And Rowand sits today…
Bob:
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/06/09/giants-prospect-madison-bumgarner-blows-his-top-during-triple-a/
Dirty:
Heard about that. Saw some video too
Andres Torres is starting to get some attention from the sabermetric community. I noticed recently that FanGraphs posted a story on him saying that he should be the starting CF in the All-Star game if you go by WAR along – i.e. the stat which tries to combine offense and defense into player value. According to FanGraphs, Torres has already racked up 2.1 wins above replacement in 2010 which is the equivalent of around $9 mil per “win” in the current market. Rob Neyer wrote about it too, just today.
Torres’ story is pretty interesting. I think we’re all aware he was a track star turned baseball player, and that he really couldn’t hit his first 6 or so seasons in professional baseball. But then, he suddenly learned how to work a count and drive the baseball. He uses the largest bat on the Giants. That’s remarkable because Sandoval uses a large bat and he weighs at least 50 more lbs than Torres. When you couple Torres’ game changing speed and ability to flat out track everything down in the outfield you find that he’s a pretty solid player.
It turns out that he learned to hit in 2007 and started putting up good minor league numbers. Then in 2008, in the Cubs minor league system, he put up some outstanding offensive numbers. I agree with Neyer, it seems the baseball community determined his numbers were the product of him graduating to a 4-A player. A 4-A player is a guy that’s had plenty of opportunity to play at the major league level and has never succeeded. So the team sends him back down he tears up AAA. Then the team brings him back up and he can’t hit his way out of a wet paper bag. This is the definition of a 4-A player. They’ve played in the upper minors long enough to figure out the slightly less polished and weaker competition but cannot seem to figure out the select few players that are consistent enough to stick in the bigs. If you want exhibit A check out Brandon Wood. Brandon Wood was a super prospect for the Angels that demolished the minor leagues. His efforts on the big club have been futile. In fact, he lost his job to Kevin Frandsen. I’d probably say the Giants’ John Bowker and Nate Schierholtz certainly look like players that might fall into this category.
So what does this all mean? It means something significant to me. Bochy had a quote last night saying that he puts Torres in an elite group of the very best outfielders in the game. I completely agree. Torres doesn’t coast, ever. Torres blazes to where the ball is, wherever it is, and simply catches it. He makes it look easy. It’s ridiculous. He’s such a graceful athlete. He also has learned to utilize his speed and start stealing bags. And, perhaps most importantly, he’s able to work the count and take some walks which is evidenced by his OBP approaching .400. And if you make a mistake, he can hit the ball a long way.
I don’t see how Torres can’t have passed Rowand on the depth chart in CF. This is the time to make the move and prove to the fans that the Giants will play the best available player, regardless of their paycheck. Torres should be penciled in at CF and batting 1st until further notice. Rowand should have to work his way back into the lineup at the corner outfield spots.
And with that, I believe the Giants are probably one impact bat away from taking the west somewhat convincingly. I don’t think Burrel is the answer, obviously, but think he could provide a good power right handed bat off the bench. I think if the Giants could scoop up a solid left fielder who can hit, they’d be set. The best thing they could possibly do is to place Posey behind the plate, Huff back at first, add a LF bat, make Torres the CF, leave Uribe at SS and keep Renteria as a backup when he returns, Sanchez obviously sticks at 2B, the Panda at 3B and Schierholtz and Rowand can scrap for time in RF. What this effectively does is gives you a pretty strong defensive lineup as well as a lineup that is league average. More importantly, it gives the Giants 4 out of 4 strong up the middle players. Posey can be a stolen base preventing backstop with outstanding offensive ability for a catcher. Freddy Sanchez is a solid overall player who can really handle the bat. Uribe isn’t the greatest shortstop on the planet but he’s at least a league average hitter with more power than the shortstop position usually has. Finally, Torres is hitting league average in centerfield with power and tremendous ability in the outfield.
That’s the team I want to see. That’s a team I believe has a shot not only to make the playoffs, but to make some noise in October.
1. Torres (CF)
2. Sanchez (2B)
3. David DeJesus (LF): http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dejesda01.shtml
4. Huff (1B)
5. Uribe (SS)
6. Sandoval (3B)
7. Posey (C)
8. Rowand/ Schierholtz platoon (RF)
9. Pitcher
I like the idea of having DeJesus come over from Kansas City. He’s the best left fielder in the game outside of Carl Crawford and can swing the stick. With the AL being a more difficult league, I could envision him flourishing in the NL, especially going from a losing franchise that must sap motivation. I also don’t know if Pablo Sandoval can be relied on the bat 3rd for the rest of 2010. Something is wrong. He’s not the same hitter he was at the end of 2008 and all of 2009. He’s a double play machine that looks out of shape and has no idea what he’s doing at the plate. I do think he can return to form, I just don’t know if he can in 2010.
Bob:
The only thing I can say is that I agree but doubt that the Giants will do as you wish. They love to play the player getting paid the most regardless of how obvious it is that a better option is available. Molina will continue to catch and be a mediocre hitter, which erodes everything because you have to move Huff to first to get the impact hitter at LF. Removing/limiting Rowand is actually I think a possibility because he flat out sucks and that is not point up for debate.
What about this lineup (I like yours better)
1. Torres CF
2. Sanch 2B
3. DeJes LF
4. Huff RF
5. Uribe SS
6. Padna 3B
7. Posey 1B
8. Molina C
Rowand on the bench unless an outfielder NEEDS a day off.
Dirty:
I think you’re right about Molina. I don’t think he starts at catcher unless he continues to struggle mightily. But, I do think there’s a chance he continues to struggle mightily and Bochy reassesses. That wouldn’t be the end of the world, especially if they grab a DeJesus type player. DeJesus has played above average defense in RF for the Royals all season and could move there to open up LF for Huff. Huff should be in LF before RF, especially with AT&T’s dimensions. I also hate the idea of Bengie hitting behind Posey. They’ll pitch around Posey pretty often (like they did last night but Bengie burned them) and Molina will hit into double plays. Posey should be on often, and neither player has blazing speed. I think that’d be a dangerous combo for double plays hitting them 7 and 8. It’s tough to stomach Bengie in the lineup right now. Both his and Rowands OPS’ are darting towards low .600 to sub .600. That’s not bad, that’s HORRIBLE.
Another thing worth noting is this. Bochy and Sabean have been praising Posey in the media. Sabean said yesterday that Posey will not be sent down. He also was quoted as saying something along the lines of, ‘I just cannot believe how relaxed this kid is.’ I couldn’t agree more. He acts like he’s been in the big leagues for 12 seasons. As soon as Posey gets a few catching starts mixed in and wins over the pitchers, Bochy can make the move. He threw Joey Votto out by a mile in the only game he caught this season. I didn’t see him have to block balls but I’d be interested to see that. He’s pretty quiet behind the plate and shows a big target – his glove looks like a “big ol’ plate” – as Krukow would say. He’ll get better with each start.
Dirty:
In case you weren’t aware, the Dodgers are in first place by themselves.
Bob:
Ya, totally right about pitching around Posey to see Molina, great point. BTW, I read Cain was saying that he's been on his game BECAUSE of Molina.
I wish I could watch more games to see what I think of this Panda in danger situation. What is he doing that is not working? I remember that when I played a lot of my success (if I ever had any) was because I swung a lot and could put almost anything in play, like Pablo with out any power. Hits fall and your average is high, but then the pitching gets better (or maybe in Panda's case, figures you out a bit) and it is way less effective. Then you try to be selective and end up watching good pitches go by. It's a rough cycle plus luck has a bit to do with it because the balls have to get down for you sometimes as well.
I haven't seen him play very much, but this is something I have thought about as he's been slumping.
Dirty:
He’s swinging at everything like he always has; however, he’s rarely driving the ball. It pretty much has to be one of two things. 1) The pitchers adjusted and don’t give him anything to hit. They almost never give in and pretty much throw him sloppy pitches, specifically low ones he can’t keep hitting off the ground. 2) His bat speed has been dramatically reduced and thus he simply cannot get to those balls he once was driving. Reduced bat speed can be caused by a bunch of stuff. One could be that he’s more tentative because of his slump and less reactive. I don’t think this is it though. The other is that he’s out of shape and more tired. I personally think it’s a combination of 1 and 2. The pitchers aren’t giving him pitches to drive ever. What’s worse, his bat speed is down. I’m almost certain of this because he’s not driving fastballs at the belt, especially while hitting right handed. Arthur Rhodes came in last night and blew him away on 4 straight fastballs (he managed to take one). He couldn’t even foul one off. Rhodes only throws about 91-92 MPH and they weren’t dramatically up in the zone. If you get a chance to see him hit, watch what they throw. It’s junk down in the zone and fastballs up in the zone. He’s not doing anything with either.
And Rowand sits today…
Bob:
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/06/09/giants-prospect-madison-bumgarner-blows-his-top-during-triple-a/
Dirty:
Heard about that. Saw some video too
Tuesday, June 8, 2010
Dynamic Duo & Pitchers Not Named Tim
Dirty:
I was out of town all weekend and didn’t get to see any games. I guess winning a series on the road is always good though, even if it’s the Pirates. I’ve read that Torres and Sanchez are building quite the dynamic duo at the top of the lineup, that’s good. Too bad Panda has been a huge disappointment so far this year. He had an outstanding May but he’s been pretty awful for basically a solid month or more.
Anyways, I was curious about Lincecum. Obviously he had better results – but we know first hand – sometimes it’s the offense that makes the pitcher look good, look at how glorious some of these no-names have pitched against the Giants. How did he look yesterday? Did he appear that he’s getting his command back, or was it simply the case of facing the Pirates?
They are going to Cincinnati for 4 straight. That ballpark is LIVE and the Reds have scored the most runs in the NL. The Giants dropped some big games against them in Cinci last year if I recall correctly. Lincecum had one of his worst starts of the year and Howry gave up a walk off HR to a rookie name Drew Stubbs (… I Think).
Who’d of thought on June 7th the Giants would have 3 of 5 starters with sub-3 ERA’s, and not one of them would be Timmy? Not I.
I guess Wellermeyer got shelled again. How long before he’s yanked from the rotation? I can’t even stand to watch that guy pitch. How can you pitch so effectively at home and so cowardly on the road? You just don’t know what you’re going to get with him – and that’s the worst thing. Bumgarner is supposed to start tonight. If he for some reason doesn’t make that start, well I think I can make an educated guess why. Then again, if he pitches and doesn’t make a full start, say 75 pitches or less, maybe he’ll essentially be getting his work in to start Thursday. I’d bet some change that if TODD starts Thursday, we will see showers in Cincinnati. I’m not talking about rain either; I’m talking about baseballs in the bleachers.
Bob:
I only saw about three full innings of Lincecum's start, but it appeared to me that he regained a great deal of the control he'd lost on his fastball. His "change up" looked nice as well the times I saw him throw it. Obviously he didn't make all of his pitches as evidenced by the 2 run homer he gave up. That was a cock shot (fastball if I remember right) up in the zone. He was hitting the spots with the fastball at around 92-93 pretty consistently from my point of view. Rockfish reminded me that he went through a similar slump last year as well, where he needed topitch from the stretch every time because his wind up was off...he's recovering I think.
Dirty:
He did have that happen to him, I remember it. I remember it because when Ubaldo Jimenez did it earlier this year people said they couldn’t remember any player ever doing that. I was kind of surprised because I knew Lincecum had in the past. Must be a Cy Young type of thing … because it’s getting awfully close to the point where you have to gift wrap that award and hand it to him. I don’t think you can say you can win a Cy Young in two months, but no one has EVER had an ERA under 1 through 12 starts. Wow. It’s getting quite silly. That and he pitches half the time at Coors …unbelievable.
The kid is starting at catcher tonight.
Rockfish:
Timmy looked better, but not great. He didn't walk as many guys, but he wasn't getting ahead in the count (I think something like no first pitch strikes through 5 innings). His fast ball kinda looks dead and flat. Someone on KNBR was saying he might have a dead arm, a la Zito in 2008, and that his Dad has him back on long toss to get his arm strength back up. I'm not worried, because he will most likely still have a long and great career, it would just be nice to see him break out of this slump sooner than later.
Dirty:
Interesting. It sure would be nice if he got that 96 mph fastball back and could couple it with his other nasty pitches, the changeup specifically of course. If he’s not hurt, and I don’t think he is, maybe his dad can get that fastball to tick back up a few MPH.
Another thought I had was maybe he’s trying to put extra on it to stay at 93. There was a time when him putting extra on it was 98. If he’s struggling just to get it to 93, that could be costing him some control. In a perfect world, he would recapture some of that velocity and regain control.
Rockfish:
I also read or heard somewhere, that throwing a splitter will naturally erode your MPH because the tendons are stretched in an unatural way. I think it has something to do with causing harm to your arm elasticity. Someone also told me something similar when I was playing softball during the week, and hardball on the weekends. Since a softball stretches your tendons differently than throwing a baseball. I thought it was a bunch of b.s., but who knows.
Dirty:
I agree with what you’re saying. I’ve heard it too, perhaps I was the one that told you that. When you put your fingers in a split grip, supposedly it splits the tendons from your hand to your elbow which can cause problems. That being said, you have guys like Clemens and Schilling who pitched a long time with that as a major pitch of their repertoire. Obviously, they were built a lot differently than tiny Tim…
I was out of town all weekend and didn’t get to see any games. I guess winning a series on the road is always good though, even if it’s the Pirates. I’ve read that Torres and Sanchez are building quite the dynamic duo at the top of the lineup, that’s good. Too bad Panda has been a huge disappointment so far this year. He had an outstanding May but he’s been pretty awful for basically a solid month or more.
Anyways, I was curious about Lincecum. Obviously he had better results – but we know first hand – sometimes it’s the offense that makes the pitcher look good, look at how glorious some of these no-names have pitched against the Giants. How did he look yesterday? Did he appear that he’s getting his command back, or was it simply the case of facing the Pirates?
They are going to Cincinnati for 4 straight. That ballpark is LIVE and the Reds have scored the most runs in the NL. The Giants dropped some big games against them in Cinci last year if I recall correctly. Lincecum had one of his worst starts of the year and Howry gave up a walk off HR to a rookie name Drew Stubbs (… I Think).
Who’d of thought on June 7th the Giants would have 3 of 5 starters with sub-3 ERA’s, and not one of them would be Timmy? Not I.
I guess Wellermeyer got shelled again. How long before he’s yanked from the rotation? I can’t even stand to watch that guy pitch. How can you pitch so effectively at home and so cowardly on the road? You just don’t know what you’re going to get with him – and that’s the worst thing. Bumgarner is supposed to start tonight. If he for some reason doesn’t make that start, well I think I can make an educated guess why. Then again, if he pitches and doesn’t make a full start, say 75 pitches or less, maybe he’ll essentially be getting his work in to start Thursday. I’d bet some change that if TODD starts Thursday, we will see showers in Cincinnati. I’m not talking about rain either; I’m talking about baseballs in the bleachers.
Bob:
I only saw about three full innings of Lincecum's start, but it appeared to me that he regained a great deal of the control he'd lost on his fastball. His "change up" looked nice as well the times I saw him throw it. Obviously he didn't make all of his pitches as evidenced by the 2 run homer he gave up. That was a cock shot (fastball if I remember right) up in the zone. He was hitting the spots with the fastball at around 92-93 pretty consistently from my point of view. Rockfish reminded me that he went through a similar slump last year as well, where he needed topitch from the stretch every time because his wind up was off...he's recovering I think.
Dirty:
He did have that happen to him, I remember it. I remember it because when Ubaldo Jimenez did it earlier this year people said they couldn’t remember any player ever doing that. I was kind of surprised because I knew Lincecum had in the past. Must be a Cy Young type of thing … because it’s getting awfully close to the point where you have to gift wrap that award and hand it to him. I don’t think you can say you can win a Cy Young in two months, but no one has EVER had an ERA under 1 through 12 starts. Wow. It’s getting quite silly. That and he pitches half the time at Coors …unbelievable.
The kid is starting at catcher tonight.
Rockfish:
Timmy looked better, but not great. He didn't walk as many guys, but he wasn't getting ahead in the count (I think something like no first pitch strikes through 5 innings). His fast ball kinda looks dead and flat. Someone on KNBR was saying he might have a dead arm, a la Zito in 2008, and that his Dad has him back on long toss to get his arm strength back up. I'm not worried, because he will most likely still have a long and great career, it would just be nice to see him break out of this slump sooner than later.
Dirty:
Interesting. It sure would be nice if he got that 96 mph fastball back and could couple it with his other nasty pitches, the changeup specifically of course. If he’s not hurt, and I don’t think he is, maybe his dad can get that fastball to tick back up a few MPH.
Another thought I had was maybe he’s trying to put extra on it to stay at 93. There was a time when him putting extra on it was 98. If he’s struggling just to get it to 93, that could be costing him some control. In a perfect world, he would recapture some of that velocity and regain control.
Rockfish:
I also read or heard somewhere, that throwing a splitter will naturally erode your MPH because the tendons are stretched in an unatural way. I think it has something to do with causing harm to your arm elasticity. Someone also told me something similar when I was playing softball during the week, and hardball on the weekends. Since a softball stretches your tendons differently than throwing a baseball. I thought it was a bunch of b.s., but who knows.
Dirty:
I agree with what you’re saying. I’ve heard it too, perhaps I was the one that told you that. When you put your fingers in a split grip, supposedly it splits the tendons from your hand to your elbow which can cause problems. That being said, you have guys like Clemens and Schilling who pitched a long time with that as a major pitch of their repertoire. Obviously, they were built a lot differently than tiny Tim…
Wednesday, June 2, 2010
Monday's Matchup
Dirty:
I’m still not worried about Lincecum. I think the fan base, as a whole, is probably approaching 4 alarm fire, DEFCON 5 status. I am not. I even heard that Lincecum was getting booed at the park yesterday. To me that is pretty much inexcusable.
Here’s why I think he’s fine. His woes come down to one thing: fastball command. That’s it. If he fixes that, he’s back. It’s not like he’s getting roped all over the park. He simply cannot locate his fastball. No pitcher can succeed if they are constantly behind the hitters. When he’s behind, he’s not able to use his changeup and slider and even his curve as often. Players are pretty much eliminating those pitches because they know he’s not locating anything. Once he establishes fastball command, he’s going to start attacking and dominating hitters again. It’s that simple.
Also, everyone was extremely excited about the game yesterday and the matchup, and they should have. That being said, Lincecum getting “outdueled” wasn’t a big deal. Lincecum is majorly scuffling and Ubaldo is having the best two months of his LIFE. He had a 17 inning scoreless streak coming in, and on top of that, his team has a superior offense. Lincecum had walked 5 hitters in each of the previous 3 games. What was the likely outcome? Duh.
Giants fans (myself included) have kneejerk reactions all the time. I heard on the radio today that the Mets have a similar problem. I have to believe it must be the sign of a tortured, mismanaged franchise. When your team hasn’t EVER one it’s current city, hasn’t won in 56 seasons, fans are bound to get a bit jumpy.
As long as Panda truly is getting back to from, Torres continues to do what he can do at the top of the lineup, Sanchez continues to be a solid contributor (on both sides of the ball) and Posey stays in the lineup; the Giants may just have a shot at this division.
Bob:
Booing Tim is appalling. It's frustrating to watch him struggle because you want him to live up to his greatness on every pitch, but at the same every human has to go through slumps sometimes. Although the Giants offensively have had a tendency to make a number of pitchers out to be Cy Young candidates this year, I think what Ubaldo has done so far is amazing. If Tim was completely on his A+ game, that would still have been a tough start to win.
Dirty:
100% agreement. No pitcher in baseball history has had an ERA of .78 through 11 starts. Also, I may have been wrong. I heard they were booing someone and I assumed it was Lincecum. My mistake. I believe they were booing Rowand, which, I’m pretty much fine with.
Rockfish:
I had this exact conversation with a buddy at work today. He said "the league finally figured Tim out". That is pure craziness. You can't walk 5 guys per game and expect to win. Bottom line, he has lost command. I just hope its only mechanical and not some mental issue cerca Ankiel. Obviously he isn't throwing balls over the backstop, but as talented, and as much success he has had, I'm sure frustration has set in. I couldn't help watch Ubaldo's velocity and late movement without fondly remembering Lincecum when he first came up. That guy is on fire right now. I'm surprised he hasn't thrown a no no during this insane run.
PS I agree with booing Rowand. Did you see him triple hop a throw to 2nd tonight from shallow left center? With a guerilla shape like his, you would think he'd have an arm. The dude is not a centerfielder.
Dirty:
Ubaldo DOES have a no hitter during this run. He threw one against Atlanta about 4 weeks ago, maybe a little further back. Heard this on Murph and Mac this morning: Pablo Sandoval, with his 0-5 with two double plays last night, made 7 outs in just 12 pitches.
I’m still not worried about Lincecum. I think the fan base, as a whole, is probably approaching 4 alarm fire, DEFCON 5 status. I am not. I even heard that Lincecum was getting booed at the park yesterday. To me that is pretty much inexcusable.
Here’s why I think he’s fine. His woes come down to one thing: fastball command. That’s it. If he fixes that, he’s back. It’s not like he’s getting roped all over the park. He simply cannot locate his fastball. No pitcher can succeed if they are constantly behind the hitters. When he’s behind, he’s not able to use his changeup and slider and even his curve as often. Players are pretty much eliminating those pitches because they know he’s not locating anything. Once he establishes fastball command, he’s going to start attacking and dominating hitters again. It’s that simple.
Also, everyone was extremely excited about the game yesterday and the matchup, and they should have. That being said, Lincecum getting “outdueled” wasn’t a big deal. Lincecum is majorly scuffling and Ubaldo is having the best two months of his LIFE. He had a 17 inning scoreless streak coming in, and on top of that, his team has a superior offense. Lincecum had walked 5 hitters in each of the previous 3 games. What was the likely outcome? Duh.
Giants fans (myself included) have kneejerk reactions all the time. I heard on the radio today that the Mets have a similar problem. I have to believe it must be the sign of a tortured, mismanaged franchise. When your team hasn’t EVER one it’s current city, hasn’t won in 56 seasons, fans are bound to get a bit jumpy.
As long as Panda truly is getting back to from, Torres continues to do what he can do at the top of the lineup, Sanchez continues to be a solid contributor (on both sides of the ball) and Posey stays in the lineup; the Giants may just have a shot at this division.
Bob:
Booing Tim is appalling. It's frustrating to watch him struggle because you want him to live up to his greatness on every pitch, but at the same every human has to go through slumps sometimes. Although the Giants offensively have had a tendency to make a number of pitchers out to be Cy Young candidates this year, I think what Ubaldo has done so far is amazing. If Tim was completely on his A+ game, that would still have been a tough start to win.
Dirty:
100% agreement. No pitcher in baseball history has had an ERA of .78 through 11 starts. Also, I may have been wrong. I heard they were booing someone and I assumed it was Lincecum. My mistake. I believe they were booing Rowand, which, I’m pretty much fine with.
Rockfish:
I had this exact conversation with a buddy at work today. He said "the league finally figured Tim out". That is pure craziness. You can't walk 5 guys per game and expect to win. Bottom line, he has lost command. I just hope its only mechanical and not some mental issue cerca Ankiel. Obviously he isn't throwing balls over the backstop, but as talented, and as much success he has had, I'm sure frustration has set in. I couldn't help watch Ubaldo's velocity and late movement without fondly remembering Lincecum when he first came up. That guy is on fire right now. I'm surprised he hasn't thrown a no no during this insane run.
PS I agree with booing Rowand. Did you see him triple hop a throw to 2nd tonight from shallow left center? With a guerilla shape like his, you would think he'd have an arm. The dude is not a centerfielder.
Dirty:
Ubaldo DOES have a no hitter during this run. He threw one against Atlanta about 4 weeks ago, maybe a little further back. Heard this on Murph and Mac this morning: Pablo Sandoval, with his 0-5 with two double plays last night, made 7 outs in just 12 pitches.
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